The NEWS... Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the Euro Group, has released a statement following the EU finance ministers conference call.... He says substantial progress on Greece has been made and is confident decisions will be made at a Euro Group meeting on Monday. Greece's Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos says his country has met all prior actions with the Euro Group and all the issues on 2012s €325m fiscal gap have been decided. He adds that those arguing for a Greek euro exit do a disservice, and hopes for a plan on Monday, including debt swap. However, he says some technical issues are still to be resolved. Venizelos says implementation of bail-out plan depends on the country's two main parties. The full statement for Jean-Claude Juncker reads: As announced yesterday, I convened the Eurogroup to a conference call today in order to discuss the outstanding issues regarding the second adjustment programme for Greece. Substantial further progress has been made since yesterday. "First, we received the strong assurances provided by the leaders of the two coalition parties in Greece's government. Second, the Troika finalized and presented its analysis on the sustainability of Greece's public debt. Third, further technical work between Greece and the Troika has led to the identification of the required additional consolidation measures of €325m and the establishment of a detailed list of prior actions together with a timeline for their implementation. "Further considerations are necessary regarding the specific mechanisms to strengthen the surveillance of programme implementation and to ensure that priority is given to debt servicing. This will strengthen debt sustainability further. "On the basis of the elements that are currently on the table and the above-mentioned additional input, I am confident that the Eurogroup will be able to take all the necessary decisions on Monday 20 February. "I am confident that the Euro Group will be able to take all the necessary decisions on Monday," he said. The troika has finalised and presented its Greek debt report and has received strong assurances from Greek political leaders. Juncker says "further considerations are needed on specifics", and European finance minsiters see a need for stronger surveillance of Greece.Several comments ...:
- Greece agrees to all conditions
- 70% Haircut issue 'fudged' (IMF/ECB secretly bail them out)
- Bailout given to Greece
- Greece pays debts due 20 March 2012
- April Elections in Greece
- New Greek Gov breaks all promises and blames past Gov
- New Bailout required for next debt(s)
- EU issues new conditions for NEXT bailout
- Repeat ad nauseum until Greece finally goes Bankrupt in 2013
- Greece agrees to all conditions
- 70% Haircut issue 'fudged' (IMF/ECB secretly bail them out)
- Bailout given to Greece
- Greece pays debts due 20 March 2012
- April Elections in Greece
- New Greek Gov breaks all promises and blames past Gov
- New Bailout required for next debt(s)
- EU issues new conditions for NEXT bailout
- Repeat ad nauseum until Greece finally goes Bankrupt in 2013
The Heart of problem: Germans don't want to be Greeks; Greeks don't want to be Germans. The Greek default is coming, the rest of the Eurozone is merely buying time to shore up their capital reserves so they can bail out the Greek debt being carried by their own financial institutions. In the long run, it'll probably be cheaper than continually topping up the Bail Out fund.
33 comments:
Here's the full statement issued by Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the Eurogroup, following tonight's meeting:
As announced yesterday, I convened the Eurogroup to a conference call today in order to discuss the outstanding issues regarding the second adjustment programme for Greece. Substantial further progress has been made since yesterday.
First, we received the strong assurances provided by the leaders of the two coalition parties in Greece's government.
Second, the Troika finalized and presented its analysis on the sustainability of Greece's public debt.
Third, further technical work between Greece and the Troika has led to the identification of the required additional consolidation measures of €325m and the establishment of a detailed list of prior actions together with a timeline for their implementation. Further considerations are necessary regarding the specific mechanisms to strengthen the surveillance of programme implementation and to ensure that priority is given to debt servicing. This
will strengthen debt sustainability further.
On the basis of the elements that are currently on the table and the above-mentioned additional input, I am confident that the Eurogroup will be able to take all the necessary decisions on Monday 20 February There's a few interesting rumours skitting around tonight following the eurogroup conference call.
Evangelos Venizelos, Greek finance minister, has announced that Greece's debt swap deal will be announced next Monday if the Eurogroup signs off on the second bailout package.
Dow Jones is reporting tonight that some eurozone officials want a "Troika presense" agreed in Athens before the bailout can proceed, along with a commitment that Greece's rescue funds will be paid into an escrow account.
There's also a report that the German, Finnish and Netherland's finance ministers suggested that the eurogroup should also seek pledges from Greece's smaller political parties – having secured Antonis Samaras and George Papandreou's support.
That has not gone down well in Greece – journalist Efthimia Efthimiou argued that it showed that the eurozone was no longer prepared to help Greece.
Greek finance minister Evangelos Venizelos accused European leaders last night of "playing with fire" by trying to oust the beleaguered country from the eurozone. Louise Armitstead brings us up to date with the latest:
With less than five weeks to avert bankruptcy and yet more delays and demands from Berlin and Brussels, Mr Venizelos said: "In the euro area, there are plenty who don't want us anymore. There are some playing with fire, domestically and abroad."
His German counterpart, Wolfgang Schaeuble, said he wanted to "help" Greece but would not "pour money into a bottomless pit".
Greek president Carolos Papoulias said: "I do not accept having my country taunted by Mr Schaeuble, as a Greek I do not accept it. Who is Mr Schaeuble to taunt Greece?"
The brinkmanship was compounded by officials in a Brussels briefing that vital bail-out funds could be deferred
Only one solution here... kick the Greeks out of the Euro, allow them to default and essentially admit their bankruptcy. The French and Germans can take whatever money they were going to flush in Greece and prop up their own national banks against the default.
The Greeks retain their independence, and pay for their corrupt socialist ways when they realize that no one will accept their devalued currency for goods.
Going to be some REALLY cheap Greek vacations... but you might want to take some food with you
The leaders are right to hold off until the elections. If and when Greece defaults, it will probably bring down Portugal next and some smaller countries like Cyprus with it too. Cyprus helped Greece with it's debt, and this is the big thank you!
"...Who is Mr
Schaeuble to taunt Greece?"
He's the man with the checkbook that's who he is. This Micawberish fake outrage is pathetic from a nation whose disastrous policies threaten to touch off an avalanche of bankruptcy all over the world. The Greeks still dont get it. They will when the contagion spreads and there isnt anyone to give a crap whether their pension checks bounce or are paid in worthless drachmas. We all will be in the same boat. President Obama just proposed a budget with a $1.5 trillion deficit and there wasnt a wave of anger and revulsion that he would commit the nation to such a destructive course. The crisis of the welfare state has finally arrived and Greece is just the first casualty
review
Moody's warned last night that it may cut the credit ratings of 17 global and 114 European financial institutions in another sign that the eurozone debt crisis is spreading throughout the global financial system
It was reviewing the long-term ratings and standalone credit assessments of a range of banks, Moody's added. Markets were unaffected by the announcement.
"Capital markets firms are confronting evolving challenges, such as more fragile funding conditions, wider credit spreads, increased regulatory burdens and more difficult operating conditions," the ratings agency said in a statement.
It said among 17 banks and securities firms with global capital markets operations, it might cut the long-term credit rating of UBS, Credit Suisse and Morgan Stanley by as much as three notches following the review. It said the guidance was indicative.
Among the banks that might be downgraded by two notches are Barclays, BNP Paribas, Credit Agricole, Deutsche Bank, HSBC Holdings and Goldman Sachs.
Bank of America and Nomura were included in those that might be downgraded by one notch
Moody's puts 114 European banks on downgrade review
Moody's warned last night that it may cut the credit ratings of 17 global and 114 European financial institutions in another sign that the eurozone debt crisis is spreading throughout the global financial system.
Moody's said that action on 114 institutions reflected the impact of the debt crisis and deteriorating creditworthiness of governments. Ian Chua and Soyoung (Kim Reuters)
The ratings agencies are beginning to remind me of wartime profiteers and we know what everybody thought of them.
Does anyone take notice of what the ratings agencies say any more? Their purpose was to give the heads up to investors who may have been unaware of less obvious risks. But they're now so far behind the curve they're yesterdays news.
Don't you just love clichés?
Greece rounded bitterly on its EU paymasters when the finance minister and socialist leader, Evangelos Venizelos, accused the eurozone of deliberately changing the terms of a proposed €130bn (£110bn) bailout because key players wanted to kick the country out of the single currency.
The charge that some eurozone countries were seeking to engineer a Greek sovereign default and exit from the euro deepened the rancour between debtor and creditors in the dangerous standoff."There are many in the eurozone who don't want us any more," Venizelos declared at a meeting with President Karolos Papoulias. "We are constantly being given new terms and conditions."
Papoulias went even further, denouncing Germany and Greece's north European creditors after Wolfgang Schäuble, the German finance minister, said that Greece must not turn into a "bottomless pit" for eurozone bailout funds and that Europe was better prepared than when the crisis erupted two years ago to cope with a Greek sovereign default.
The Greeks will hold out and call Germanys bluff. The damage from a disorderly default will be greater to Germany and France than it would be to Greece and destroy Merkozy at home, so they can't let them default. If the greeks stay in the EZ the Germans will be stuck with them and they want to move on so there is only one solution...
The Greeks will get their bailout and leave, think of it as a golden goodbye so popular in financial circles...
The cold economic answer is that Greece should go bust. However our dear German friends forget about the Geopolitical question that occurs when you have a destabilized Greece heading towards mass starvation as in 1910 and 1947. Greece goes down, its war with Turkey (short lived) a new set of Generals the Balkans burn, SE Europe and the Caucuses are destabilized at the same time Syria goes into civil war. Rule no 1 of the Holy Roman Empire, whatever the cost you have to stabilize your borders. Unfortunately the midgets in Berlin cannot see this. As for Britain, we should be increasing the size of our Navy because are we going to need it if we want to keep the lights on in Britain.
French bank Société Générale reported an 89% drop in fourth-quarter net profit as it booked restructuring charges and took further write-downs on its Greek sovereign bonds.
Greece but on Wednesday it was clear relations between Europe's paymaster and its most indebted state had reached a new level of hostility.
If there was any doubt that the gloves were off it was removed by Evangelos Venizelos, the Greek finance minister early in the day. "Our country," he said, "is waging a battle of survival within the eurozone. This is because, manifestly, there are now powers in Europe who are playing with fire, who believe not all requirements will be met … and who consequently want Greece out of the eurozone."
Three years into the debt crisis it was clear that any diplomacy that might have dominated attempts to end it thus far had been replaced by anger and exasperation. And not just in the capitals of northern Europe.
Venizelos's outburst, hours before a crucial teleconference with eurozone counterparts over Athens's ability to apply cuts in return for the €130bn in rescue loans it desperately needs to stay afloat, was proof that tempers were being sorely tested in Greece, too.
The debt-stricken country may have delayed delivering the reforms its "troika" of international creditors at the EU, ECB and IMF say are vital to kick-starting its economy. But increasingly officials complain that the goalposts are also being constantly shifted.
The release of a new poll on Wednesday showing a majority of German business leaders felt it was time Greece left the euro added to the sour mood. Although heartened by offerings of support by socialists in Europe, including the French presidential contender, François Hollande, Greek officials say the shock therapy now being administered to Greece after almost two years of savage spending cuts has dramatically hindered any attempt to improve its economic position.
Figures released by the nation's statistics agency this week showed that Greece is going through one of the biggest slumps in western history, with its GDP plunging 7% on an annual basis in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, faster than the 6.8%decline for all of 2011.
"They want sound figures in the economy but with dead citizens," said another insider, saying the austerity Greece was being forced to mete out in return for aid was coming perilously close to killing the patient.
The mood in the City has certainly darkened this week when it comes to Greece. For weeks, experts have argued that the €130bn would eventually be sorted – despite the ongoing problems – because the consequences of failure were so severe.
Today, though, the penny/euro/drachma has dropped that – by accident or design – a new panic and a disorderly Greek default is an immediate risk.
Joshua Raymond of City Index warned that the financial markets' trust in Europe is being chipped away:
We are getting to the point now whereby investors are starting to lose trust in much of what is said from EU officials in Europe. The disparity of views and rhetoric out of Greece, Germany and broader Europe are in direct contradictions to each other and this is making the situation so much harder to read for investors.
9.28am: Despite the eurozone crisis, Italy managed to achieve trade surplus with the rest of the world in December. A surge in exports meant it posted a stronger performance than a year ago.
Italy exported €31.4bn during the the month, but only imported €29.9bn. A year ago, it had sold goods with €29.7bn, while €32bn worth came into the country.
Chasing some analysis
9.11am: News in from Athens. Our correspondent Helena Smith reports that finance minister Evangelos Venizelos has blasted those Greek politicians who back the debt-stricken country's exit from the euro zone.
Speaking after last night's eurogroup conference call, Venizelos launched an attack on the communist and hard-left parties who believe Greece should abandon the euro.
Another cause of unease this morning – Moody's has warned that it may cut the credit ratings of 114 banks across Europe.
The rating agency announced the move following its actions on nine European countries earlier this week. It said that ratings could be lowered because of:
(i) the adverse and prolonged impact of the euro area crisis, which makes
the operating environment very difficult for European banks;
(ii) the deteriorating creditworthiness of euro area sovereigns
(iii) the substantial challenges faced by banks and securities firms with significant capital market activities.
Moody's indicated that UBS, Credit Suisse and Morgan Stanley could all potentially be downgraded by up to 3 notches
Just heard Guy Verhofstadt (I've probably misspelled that) on 5Live. Former Belgian Prime Minister and euro fanatic. He is, quite literally, mad. He continues to insist that the euro is an engine for growth, that the people of Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium love it, and that it would be in the best interests of the UK to adopt this wretched and ill-starred currency.
It's been obvious for some years that the Brussels mob will stop at nothing, including the destruction of democracy and of populations, to bring about their monstrous and wicked dream. But even I was amazed at this Guy's refusal to face even the tiniest bit of the truth
So, is anybody going to DO anything about it, or just sit and wring their hands until it's too late? The Fourth Reich look like they're going to achieve what the Third Reich failed to do - a European take over.
Jackboots over Europe, stormtroopers dressed as technocrats. A not-so-stealthy takeover by a new dictatorship, who will kick those who don't comply mercilessly out of the way.
I liken Cameron to Chamberlain. A gullible, limp-wristed wimp, who appears to be blinkered to the desires of his countrymen. Scottish independence should be the last of his concerns.
Can you name me one country that is not running a deficit in the Eurozone? What got Greece into trouble was not the debt, but the exorbitant interest rates the banks want to charge Greece to borrow. If you are going to have a unified currency you must have unified interest payments.
The EU is to blame for Greece's extravagant spending. It encouraged Greece to go on a spending spree so the Germans and French had a new market for their products without import duties that Greece previously put on their imports. Greece obliged them and as children let loose in a candy store stuffed itself for all it was worth. Yes, it was wrong to do, but so much free money was coming in, and no declaration that the spigot would be turned off it led to vast overspending.
Waste was rampant in those first years in the EU, but as the other countries were using Greece as a dumping ground for their products and it was easy to think the party wouldn't last.
Yes, their political system is corrupt and the main political parties have been run by the same families for generations. Promise the populace ever more to assure your continuing stay in power was the attitude of the politicians and the Greeks were happy to oblige. But isn't the same thing happening to other countries?
Don't blame the Greeks, you are doing the same in your countries, and
the US where I'm from is just as if not more guilty than others.
Democracy fails when people realize that they can get their politicians to give them money from the public treasury in exchange for keeping them elected.
Most people here don't blame the Greeks; they blame the EU and the politicians for scheming and meddling with lives across the whole european continent.
The people who tend to blame the Greeks are the few remaining pro EU fanatics who seem to be living in a completely different world to everyone else.
The Germans are playing the bully boy at the moment; something they're very good at. It's not the first time in the last 100 years that they've wanted to tell the peoples of europe how to live their lives.
What I do know is that the euro and the EU continue to cause unrest and chaos across Europe.
I wonder if the Greeks started printing the nea drachma by now since the documents says 23 March is the last date Greece will operate with euro as a currency......if they still rely on their bailout euros coming through in the next weeks and doing nothing ,I don't even want to start thinking about the events that will unfold in Greece........
A state is free to choose to leave. If a member
state says, 'we prefer not to take money from other states and return to a
national currency without making structural reforms,' then that state has
chosen to exclude itself. It is therefore the responsibility of the Greek
people to choose whether they want to stay in the eurozone.
Papandreou was all for giving the Greek people that very choice!!!!!
What a two-faced hypocritical organization the EZ has become. Now they think they can get away with a Greek default .......
What a great example of Eurozone 'unity' this is setting for future EZ wannabees - take my advice, avoid it like the plague and the self-centred, self-aggrandizing cabal Merkozy has made it.
It is clear that Berlin, Helsinki, and the Hague have taken the decision to
eject Greece from the euro whatever the country now does. Even if Greece
complies to the letter with the impossible terms of the EU-IMF Troika, it
will not make any difference. A fresh pretext will be found.
Latest
15.35 Greek government sources have told Reuters that the country has agreed with international lenders on how €325m budget savings will be achieved. The cuts will allegedly come from defence and public sector wage cuts and other ministeries' operating expenses.
15.30 A German coalition source has told Reuters that if the Euro Group decides on a package on Monday then the PSI (worth €100bn) will start on February 22 and end March 9. The source reaffirms that the aid package amounts to €130bn but points still open include escrow account for debt redemption and better control of savings. The Euro Group is also allegedly awaiting for the Laos far right party to commit to continue the reforms.
The "horrifying" costs of default and leaving the Euro have been repeated and repeated. But let's look at who's saying it: It's the banks and their proxies in the ECB, the EU, and elsewhere. They have every reason to scare Greece away from default and devaluation.
I've attended Paris Club meetings, where the debt of countries is rescheduled and indeed it's not pretty. But a default, coupled with a return to the drachma at least gives light at the end of the tunnel.
Greece's choice is two years of hell after a default, or twenty years of hell trying to perform an internal devaluation.
After two awful years, Greece will be able come back to life. The productive parts of the society will be making money, expanding and hiring people. The parts that aren't productive will dwindle. Bank lending will restart. Right now, as part of the over-valued Euro, the economy has no way of distinguishing between the productive sectors of the economy and the rest.
Yes, the next two years will be bleak, but after a devaluation the bad times will end. There is no end in sight for Greek suffering if it stays within the Euro. It could last twenty, or even forty years.
The priority for Merkel and co is not to alleviate poverty and ensure decent standards of health and education in Greece but to protect the banks and financial wheeler-dealers and keep the market happy, or at least not unhappy. The second priority is to sustain confidence in the euro. The banks will get some of their money anyway. And the tax-payers in Euro countries will pay for it. That's the goal.
The plan was to pretend that Greece had proved its creditworthiness sufficiently to justify giving it money to give to the banks. If the charade is not convincing, then Greece will be bypassed and the money will go straight to the banks (on Greece's behalf). Otherwise, the banks would suffer great losses and wouldn't be able to afford extravagant bonuses, a nightmare scenario far more tragic than a few million more impoverished Greeks.
It doesn't sound that horrific. Not compared to replacing democracy across Europe with unaccountable, faceless technocrats in the pay of the banks. Which will probably lead to widespread fascism; oppression and misery as they try to contain the resulting uprisings. Not to mention several decades of economic and political hell as we all get squeezed for the benefit of our off-shore, non-tax paying masters, and the only growth industry is surveillance. Followed by a few thousands deaths per country as a people have to get rid of them, finally, like the egyptians are right now.
A few weeks of hassle sound like positively easy when you really compare the options.
can already sense the misplaced panic in this article. It's old school propaganda from politico-bankers disguised as nationalists. It is as if the war has already begun. The self serving politicians, corporate lobbyists, and bankers would love nothing more than the Greeks and Germans to hate each other. This would deflect the blame onto stereotypical cultural shortcomings rather than where the blame is most deserved- clueless and selfish bankers that screwed up royally.
Greece's inherent problems will not change if it stays in the euro or goes. Greece will get bailed out regardless. This is a matter of creative bookkeeping and soon to be forgotten ledgers.
As sure as the sun rises, at the end of the day, after all the scolding and berating is over, Europeans will not let Europeans starve. It doesn't matter what currency they use. Do you even know what currency a Bosnian or Latvian uses?
We were warned that a union of Europeans is only fathomable in good times. Now that the bad times are here, how European are you?
A familial union is necessary to avert the European's gravest inheritance- the horror of war. A financial union is secondary, maybe even insignificant. If the euro is so prized why does England, Sweden, and Poland stand aside?
Will the ugly head of nationalism rise again? Is tribal hatred and then warfare a better solution? Shall we be like those few ignorant American patriots who gladly die for flag and dollar, or are we compassionate enough to have matured beyond this most vulgar sort of symbolism?
The Germans are not cowboys and the Greeks are not Indians. And the euro will never pound the dollar. Oh well.
What we as Europeans must always remember, warfare is about class and not national identity. Would it help to know that the poor of Liverpool, Dresden, Phoenix, Lima, Dhaka and Khartoum have more in common with the poor in Athens than the rich men holding hands out at the ECB and IMF?
Look at your wallet next to your ID card. Greek, German, or English- Isn't it obvious we are all indentured servants to banks that issue credit cards?
The war, if there is to be one, will enrich the wealthy and further impoverish the most vulnerable. This is nonsensical and must be avoided even if the rich must bail out the poor ad infinitum. The bankers' worst nightmare, is the disenfranchised and abused to stand up and say enough! We are civil egalitarians and we all deserve our share of our pie. Stuff your bonuses and buy some books for some Romanians!
The whole banking system is corrupt. It is a good thing it is disintegrating. That is what corrupt things do.
But while it is happening and after it is over, please have the dignity not to insult the Greeks or Germans of similar station. Awareness is everything and belligerence is pointless.
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