Finland and Russia. Well Finland is the only EU member nation to border Russia and not be a NATO member. I suspect they are wary of Russia but have a greater understanding of Russia's somewhat justified paranoia and anger with broken ' influence space' NATO invasions since the 1990's. They seek the old USSR relationship probably which worked well for Finland. Your last sentence captures this.  BTW by many polls the most pro-EU Nordic - not members yet (and they were in the list with Denmark, UK and Ireland in the 1960's - is Norway. Following April's elections, Juha Sipila, the prime minister, Timo Soini, the eurosceptic foreign minister and Alexander Stubb, the finance minister, have pledged to create more jobs, to get the economy moving and avoid a "lost decade" from a lack of reforms.  Finland is out on its own compared to the other Nordic countries in joining the Euro. Norway isn't even in the EU, Sweden has done well keeping the Krona and Denmark has kept their Krona but ties it to the Euro, a tie that could easily be broken if the proverbial hits the fan. Finland is looking rather isolated. Of course the Baltic states are in the Euro but they have all paid a heavy price for membership.  Would I be right in thinking that Finland is being hurt by Russian retaliatory sanctions rather more than other countries? Whilst they must have an historical healthy fear of Russia, I would imagine they are far more scared about the West restarting the Cold war in extreme earnest because of western interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine.

More about BIS from "The Tower of Basel" an excellent book..

"The BIS is a unique institution: an international organization, an extremely profitable bank and a research institute founded, and protected, by international treaties. The BIS is accountable to its customers and shareholders—the central banks—but also guides their operations. The main tasks of a central bank, the BIS argues, are to control the flow of credit and the volume of currency in circulation, which will ensure a stable business climate, and to keep exchange rates within manageable bands to ensure the value of a currency and so smooth international trade and capital movements. This is crucial, especially in a globalized economy, where markets react in microseconds and perceptions of economic stability and value are almost as important as reality itself.The BIS also helps to supervise commercial banks, although it has no legal powers over them. The Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, based at the BIS, regulates commercial banks’ capital and liquidity requirements. It requires banks to have a minimum capital of eight percent of risk-weighted assets when lending, meaning that if a bank has risk-weighted assets of $100 million it must maintain at least $8 million capital. The committee has no powers of enforcement, but it does have enormous moral authority. “This regulation is so powerful that the eight percent principle has been set into national laws,” said Peter Akos Bod. “It’s like voltage. Voltage has been set at 220. You may decide on ninety-five volts, but it would not work.” In theory, sensible housekeeping and mutual cooperation, overseen by the BIS, will keep the global financial system functioning smoothly. In theory....The BIS is now the world’s thirtieth-largest holder of gold reserves, with 119 metric tons—more than Qatar, Brazil, or Canada. Membership of the BIS remains a privilege rather than a right. The board of directors is responsible for admitting central banks judged to “make a substantial contribution to international monetary cooperation and to the Bank’s activities.” China, India, Russia, and Saudi Arabia joined only in 1996. The bank has opened offices in Mexico City and Hong Kong but remains very Eurocentric. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Slovenia, and Slovakia (total population 16.2 million) have been admitted, while Pakistan (population 169 million) has not. Nor has Kazakhstan, which is a powerhouse of Central Asia. In Africa only Algeria and South Africa are members—Nigeria, which has the continent’s second-largest economy, has not been admitted. (The BIS’s defenders say that it demands high governance standards from new members and when the national banks of countries such as Nigeria and Pakistan reach those standards, they will be considered for membership.)"

The Greek government will not receive €1.2bn (£883m) in European rescue funds after the bloc's officials ruled the Leftist government had no legal claims on the cash.  Athens requested a return of the funds it said were erroneously handed to creditors from Greece's own bank recapitalisation fund, the Hellenic Financial Stability Facility (HFSF).  The transfer was originally arranged by the previous Greek administration.   But eurozone offcials have blocked the claim, saying it is "legally impossible" transfer the money back to Athens.   "There was agreement that, legally, there was no over payment from the HFSF to the EFSF," said an fund spokesman.   Germany's finance ministry was also reluctant to allow the release, claiming there was "no reason" to make the transfer. The decision is a further blow to the Greek government's attempts to stay afloat over the next few weeks. Athens has been scrambling to make repayments to its creditors and continue to pay wages and pensions. The government now faces another €450m cash squeeze at the beginning of April. As part of its efforts to stay solvent, the Leftist government has also requested a €1.9bn transfer of profits held by the European Central Bank, from the holdings of its Greek debt.  So far, the ECB has rebuffed all Greek pleas to alleviate their cash squeeze. The central bank moved to officially bank the country's banks from increasing their holdings of short-term government debt.

A fortnight ago, about 130 business leaders, who between them employ 50,000 people in Scotland, wrote an open letter in the Scotsman newspaper saying No Thanks to separation. The group, led by the chief executive of engineering giant Weir, Keith Cochrane, said the “business case” for Scottish independence had not been made.

Kingfisher boss Cheshire does not believe Scotland will be able to keep the pound, which would mean repricing 35,00 products, with the cost being passed on to customers. He called on other business leaders to come out and make similar points, saying “It’s now or never.”

Jean-Bernard Levy, the head of France’s Thales – Britain’s second-largest defence contractor – said a yes vote would force the company to reconsider its facilities on both sides of the border.

BP boss Bob Dudley, said he does not want to see Scotland “drifting away” from the UK, because independence would almost certainly mean higher costs for his business.

HSBC chairman Douglas Flint has warned that uncertainty over Scotland’s currency could prompt capital flight from the country and leave it in a “parlous” financial state.

Weir, one of Scotland’s biggest companies, said independence will “guarantee” higher costs for business but produce few and uncertain benefits, after commissioning a report on the economics.

Standard Life, one of the main pillars of Scotland’s finance industry, has set up English subsidiaries as a part of “contingency” planning that could see it quit Scotland.

Royal Bank of Scotland, Scotland’s biggest bank, has tried not to raise the temperature despite harbouring concerns over the risks to its credit rating and business.

Lloyds Banking Group has warned of a “material impact” on its costs and borrowing, implying a knock-on impact for businesses and customers for the owner of Lloyds, Halifax and Bank of Scotland.

Alliance Trust, a pensions and savings firm based in Dundee, has been registering companies in England.

Former Sainsbury’s boss Justin King, was accused of scaremongering by the Scottish National party when he warned that independence could mean higher food prices north of the border. Asda and Morrisons have also warned consumers would face higher prices, reflecting the higher transport costs for some remote areas.

 

 

Democracy is the greatest scam ever to be put on a population. In Democracy the people who control the media control the nation. When do Democracies ever vote on anything important? Whenever a referendum on immigration, gay marriage, or these middle class destroying free trade agreements comes up they are crushed by the courts and it is always against the will of the people....I'm not certain that the triumph of the West in World War Two is much of an example of democracy working when its back is against the wall. After all, the Soviet Union won the war in Europe, accounting for something like 85% of German casualties.

Of course, the U.S. won in the Pacific, so there's that. But even there it was finally the impending threat of Soviet intervention that caused the Japanese to surrender, not the atom bombs that were dropped. Still, it was American forces that did all the brutal island hopping and fire bombing of civilian populations that brought Japan to that juncture -- though the extended, bordering-on-genocidal terror bombing of civilian populations also may not be the finest example of democracy at work....

What's insidious about this alternative to Western governance is that it promises prosperity at the expense of individual freedom, while dismissing democracy as ineffective.

It happens that Western governance, especially in the EU, is equally dismissive of democracy.

Everywhere the State has been captured by a cartel of almost identical and interchangeable of establishment parties that are whittling away our hard earned freedoms.

Truly, it is said that those who give up freedom for security end up with neither... I think in the coming centuries the late 20th and early 21st centuries will be remembered as a strange but short golden age when democracy actually thrived. In the coming centuries I fear today's Russia and China will seem benevolent compared to what awaits us....well...I think in the coming centuries the late 20th and early 21st centuries will be remembered as a strange but short golden age when democracy actually thrived. In the coming centuries I fear today's Russia and China will seem benevolent compared to what awaits us.

TODAY's EU - Italy's finance minister, and Luis de Guindos, his Spanish counterpart, will face a grilling from other eurozone finance heads over their draft budgets in Brussels this morning. Last week the European Commission voiced concerns about the pair's spending plans, warning that they did not go far enough to narrow deficits or reduce debt. While the EU does not have the power to veto individual members' budgets, the European Commission hopes the pressure to explain their decisions to their counterparts will force them to make changes.

The gathering comes as the prospect of a second bail-out looms for Portugal. Several senior officials are concerned that Portugal may need a second bail-out, reported the Financial Times yesterday. The officials site Portugal's difficulties in passing tough economic reforms and the string of bond repayments due in the years after Portugal exits its first, 78bn, bail-out. One troika official is quoted as saying "The jury is genuinely out. We are mentally prepared for either [a line of credit or a second full-scale bail-out". THEY ALL HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE BUNDESTAG -  when it comes to their budgets, since Europe is under the natzi Germany boot, but the news is being altered in such a way as the people think that it is Brussells that is runing the EU, when in fact is only Germany!

France's government is embroiled in a row over the repatriation of a Kosovo Roma schoolgirl, who was removed from her school bus.

The 15-year-old, Leonarda Dibrani, was expelled along with her parents and five siblings after they lost their battle for asylum in France.

When the order was enacted, she was on a school field trip and was removed in view of the other children.

Leonarda told French radio she was being denied education in Kosovo.

She said she wanted to return to France to finish school.

The government is conducting an inquiry into how the case was handled.

Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault told parliament that if a mistake had been made, the family could return to France to have its situation reassessed in respect of French "laws, practices and values".

His Interior Minister, Manuel Valls, defended the expulsion. Last month he declared Roma people incompatible with the French way of life.

Mr Valls is voted France's favourite politician in opinion polls but he has been strongly criticised by human rights campaigners and figures within his own party for his strident comments.

Critics accuse President Francois Hollande's administration of following the hard line on the Roma taken by his conservative predecessor as president, Nicolas Sarkozy.

The new row has deepened the rift within the ruling left on how to tackle the issue, the BBC's Christian Fraser reports from Paris.

WSJ - Ireland's economy slid into crisis in 2008 when the bursting of its property bubble wrecked the country's banks and brought the euro-zone member close to bankruptcy. In late 2010, the government secured €67.5 billion ($91.54 billion) in loans from the EU and IMF, the last of which will be disbursed over the next two months. From next year, the government will have to finance itself exclusively through the bond markets. Finance Minister Michael Noonan told lawmakers that the budget will introduce up to €2.5 billion in new tax increases and spending cuts, saying that Ireland will better the deficit target for 2014 that was set under its bailout agreement. The proposed cuts are the smallest since 2008. Under the budget, the deficit is planned to fall to 4.8% of gross domestic product in 2014 from 7.3% this year. The government is committed to reducing its deficit to below 3% of GDP in 2015. Required to keep cutting its deficit over the next two years, Ireland's government will then be obliged to endure a tight regime of fiscal oversight for many more years to cut its towering national debt.  Despite those constraints, Mr. Noonan told lawmakers that in ending its dependence on EU and IMF loans, the nation would regain control over its own destiny.

"We have a fair wind at our backs to achieve our objectives and to restore our sovereignty," he said.

After the long years of sacrifice, the government is seeking to shore up faltering public support for austerity, describing its 2014 budget as one of the last of the big painful efforts to move the country out of crisis and into recovery. The leaders of the two parties in the coalition government have said there is now clear evidence that the country is emerging from its "national emergency."

There is much at stake for the euro zone, which has also provided bailouts to Greece, Portugal, Cyprus and Spain. A successful return to the bond markets for Ireland would offer euro-zone policy makers a rare opportunity to claim a success for their much-criticized strategy for confronting the currency area's fiscal and banking crisis, one that has relied heavily on austerity.

Mr. Noonan said that for the first time since the onset of the financial crisis, the government will post a primary budget surplus next year. That would mean that excluding interest payments, its tax revenues would exceed its spending, helping to cap its huge debts.

Tuesday's budget means that since 2008, Ireland has detailed cuts to its budget totaling a cumulative €30 billion, representing about 18.5% of the country's annual economic output and making it one of the largest austerity programs undertaken anywhere in the aftermath of the financial crisis.

The EU and IMF and other institutions, such as the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council and the Irish central bank, had urged the government to go further and meet in full a proposed €3.1 billion in deficit cuts, to safeguard its finances. But the coalition projects that it will still meet its bailout budget targets in 2014 and 2015, and help promote jobs.

Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives are meeting the center-left Social Democrats (SPD) for a second round of preliminary talks on Monday afternoon and plan to decide by the end of the week whether to start formal coalition talks with them or the Greens.  A grand coalition between the conservatives and the SPD -- Merkel's preferred option because it would give her comfortable majorities in both houses of parliament -- is looking increasingly likely.  So far at least, progress has been easier than anticipated. The two parties are finding scope for compromises on a range of domestic policy issues including the introduction of a minimum wage, tax policy and the energy revolution.  The allocation of cabinet posts could, however, prove contentious. The SPD wants the post of finance minister, a key position in tackling the euro crisis which is currently occupied by veteran Wolfgang Schäuble of Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU), but Merkel doesn't want to hand it over. The SPD also wants the labor portfolio, which would require Labor Minister Ursula von der Leyen to find another post. Rumor has it that she would like to be foreign minister, but sources have told SPIEGEL that Merkel may offer her the Health Ministry instead, a less attractive position.  There is speculation that Schäuble could become Foreign Minister and that SPD member Jörg Asmussen, currently on the European Central Bank's executive board, could replace him as finance minister.   Another difficult issue is likely to be dual citizenship. Merkel's CDU and its Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU), oppose it and the current law requires people born in Germany to foreign parents to choose by the age of 23 whether they want to be German or foreign citizens. The SPD wants to amend the law and allow permanent dual citizenship.  Merkel said last week she wants to know which party she will be entering formal coalition talks with by Oct. 22, when the newly elected Bundestag, Germany's lower house of parliament, assembles for its first session.  That doesn't mean a new government will be in place by that date, though. It means she wants to be sure who her likely coalition partner is going to be. 'New Government by Mid-November'  Schäuble told reporters that a new government could be formed quite quickly. "I think we'll have a new government by around the middle of November," he said Saturday on the sidelines of international financial talks in Washington. Merkel, who led her conservatives to their best general election result since the heady days of reunification in 1990, is just five seats short of an absolute majority.  Some observers said in the immediate aftermath of the election that the coalition talks could drag on to the end of the year or even into January. Germany may have a government a lot sooner than that.

Super speach...watch IT IS A GOOD ONE !

Olli Rehn (the incompetent idiot), Europe's economic commissioner, welcomed news that the 17 nations that use the single currency had expanded collectively by 0.3% in the three months to June – the first pick- up in activity since the autumn of 2011.

But Rehn said celebrations should be put on hold given Europe's jobs crisis and the wide disparity in economic performance across the eurozone. "Yes, this slightly more positive data is welcome – but there is no room for any complacency whatsoever", Rehn said. "I hope there will be no premature, self-congratulatory statements suggesting the crisis is over. For we all know that there are still substantial obstacles to overcome: the growth figures remain low and the tentative signs of growth are still fragile."

Rehn (the conventional idiot) said the average number for the bloc hid substantial differences between states, with Germany's positive performance outstripping that of Spain and Italy, who remain in recession. He added that some member states still have unacceptably high unemployment rates, with economic reforms still in their infancy, leaving the region with a "very long way to go."

"A sustained recovery is now within reach, but only if we persevere on all fronts of our crisis response: keep up the pace of economic reform, regain control over our debt, both public and private, and build the pillars of a genuine economic and monetary union," he said. Figures released by Eurostat, the EU's statistical agency, showed that a stronger than expected performance by the single currency's two biggest economies - Germany and France - helped haul the eurozone out of recession. Financial markets had been braced for a rise in eurozone GDP following the increase in industrial production reported on Tuesday but were surprised by news that Germany grew by 0.7% in the second quarter and that France grew by 0.5%.  Along with the rest of the world, the eurozone fell into a deep slump in the winter of 2008-09 before recovering in 2010 and early 2011. But a second leg of the downturn then commenced as a result of the eurozone's sovereign debt crisis, which hit confidence, led to a mothballing of investment and resulted in the imposition of hardline austerity programmes.

Despite the growth in the second quarter, the European Commission still expects the eurozone to suffer a second full calendar year of falling output in 2013, with growth resuming in 2014.

Eurostat's figures showed that Italy and Spain - the single currency's third and fourth biggest economies - both remained in recession in the second quarter of 2013. Spain's economy shrank by 0.1% percent on the quarter, while Italy posted a 0.2% decline.

The Dutch economy also contracted by 0.2% but Portugal – one of the three countries that required a financial bailout – recorded the fastest growth of any eurozone country with 1.1% quarterly growth.Funny - some friends just returned from France on a hunt for bargain property - looked at a 3.5M Euro estate that was asking 1.2M.   They passed because as they stated, "you could smell desperation in the air - shops in the nearby town were shuttered - there was no activity on the street"... Can someone explain how France is growing?  The MSM is getting very desperate trying to create "green shoots"... Do you think we are stupid enough to believe this BS?....am so disillusioned with this its incredible. It's just a cycle which lasts 10-15 years. Growth-Depression, Growth-Depression. Couple this with increasing house prices which are doomed to crash again we have the same thing happening. Europe obviously hasn't learned and as the saying goes they will be doomed to repeat the past.

Bank of America’s monthly survey of investors showed a dramatic rise in confidence in August, with a net 72pc expecting growth to accelerate over the next year. It is the highest in reading since 2009. Almost everybody expects bond yields to rise as deflation fears evaporate, with just 3pc still worried about the risk of an economic relapse. Managers have slashed their bond allocation to a 28-month low.

The survey is watched by veterans as a "contrarian indicator", tracking herd mentality at key moments. Michael Hartnett, the bank’s investment strategist, advised clients to take the opposite trade and buy US Treasury bonds.

The exuberant mood comes as margin debt on Wall Street hovers near $377bn, just below its all-time high and well above peaks before the dotcom crash and the Lehman crisis. Since the first of the year, retail investors (unsophisticated sheep) have shoveled a bit south of 100B into stock mutual funds. You can always rely on the middle class investor to identify the proper time to exit equities.

This new stampede of sheep is contrasted with the sheep pulling out a little south of 200B in first six months of last year.

Sell Low, Buy High - the operative slogan of those late to party, drinking the dregs from the punch bowl. A likely apocryphal story about Bernard Baruch, a legendary Wall Street trader, expressed that he knew that it was time to get out of the market when his shoe shine boy offered him hot stock tips.

Professional investors and hedge fund managers are holding unprecedented levels of cash (30-40%) and are awaiting the sheep's perfect timing of the market top. They know better than to try and game central banks. There is no underlying strength in just about any economy - just central bank roulette.

• You may ask yourself, how do I work this?
• You may ask yourself, where is that large automobile?
• You may tell yourself, this is not my beautiful house
• You may tell yourself, this is not my beautiful wife
•  
• Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
• Letting the days go by, water flowing underground
• Into the blue again, after the money's gone
• Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground
•  
• Same as it ever was, same as it ever was,
• same as it ever was, same as it ever was

Experts "travaille" sur les "eurobonds" à Strasbourg - we are screwed !

Les "eurobonds" reviennent. La Commission européenne a annoncé mardi 2 juillet à Strasbourg la formation d'un groupe d'experts pour évaluer les avantages et les risques d'une mutualisation partielle de la dette au sein de la zone euro, vue comme une première étape vers la mise en place d'obligations communes (euro-obligations).

La Commission avait décidé de mettre en place ce groupe d'experts en contrepartie d'un renforcement de la discipline budgétaire décidée au printemps, et sous la pression du Parlement européen. Onze experts font partie de ce groupe, dont l'économiste française Agnès Benassy. Ce groupe devait initialement présenter ses conclusions d'ici mars 2014, mais aucune indication calendaire n'a été fournie mardi.

Le rôle de ce groupe est d'analyser les avantages et obstacles à la mise en place d'un fonds d'amortissement, qui permettrait de mutualiser une partie de la dette de la zone euro, ou la mise en place d'"eurobills", des titres de dette communs à court terme.

PRESSION DE BERLIN - Le sujet est particulièrement délicat car l'Allemagne, qui emprunte à très bas coût sur le marché de la dette, refuse toute forme de mutualisation de la celle-ci au sein de la zone euro. Le sujet a été maintes fois évoqué, et toujours repoussé à plus tard, sous la pression de Berlin.

Pendant la partie la plus aiguë de la crise, de nombreux responsables politiques et économistes plaidaient pour la mise en place d'euro-obligations, afin de faire baisser la pression sur les pays les plus fragiles de la zone euro, dont les taux d'emprunt atteignaient des niveaux insupportables.

"Les membres de ce groupe d'experts, dirigé par M^me Gertrude Tumpel-Gugerell, ancienne membre du directoire de la Banque centrale européenne, possèdent une expertise impressionnante et ont des parcours variés. Je leur fais confiance pour donner des conseils précieux sur ces questions très complexes d'un point de vue politique, économique et juridique", a affirmé le président de la Commission, José Manuel Barroso, qui s'exprimait devant le Parlement européen.

Commenting on the British Prime Minister David Cameron's speech on the UK's future in the EU, the Chairman of the EPP Group, Joseph Daul, said: "I find it surprising that after forty years of partnership and common decisions, one of our Member States discovers that it is unhappy and wants to renegotiate the terms for a joint future. It is even more astonishing that it is a Conservative Prime Minister who is trying to wipe out the contributions of his predecessors: Conservative Prime Ministers such as Winston Churchill, Harold Macmillan, Edward Heath, Margaret Thatcher, and John Major, who all helped forge the European Union of today. We will not renegotiate the fundamental principles which have given us peace and prosperity on this continent; principles which were negotiated and accepted by the United Kingdom for forty years.

For sixty years, Europe has worked to create a model that remains a beacon for the rest of the world, one that received last year's Nobel Peace Prize. Europe is no longer just about the nation state. It never was just a Single Market, a single currency or a set of common standards. Europe is above all a community of shared destiny with common values, founded on solidarity and responsibility.

The Prime Minister's speech is a retreat from these common values and a retreat from a shared common future. The United Kingdom was always at its highest point when it was working with its partners, not retreating from them. Today, I worry that this has been done for electoral purposes more than for the benefit of the British citizens. Europe cannot be taken hostage until 2017.

I want the United Kingdom to be a full Member State of the European Union but, I want a European Britain, just as I want a European France, a European Germany. Europe needs 27 Member States which are fully European. More than anything, we need a united Europe, an integrated Europe, a political Europe and I believe each Member State can contribute to this."

The German (Fourth Reich's ) Governor of Greece - Horst Reichenbach made no comments !!!!!

No final decision on next tranche of Greek bailout expected today, despite "broadly positive" Troika report ( Governor's Horst Reichenbach report in fact).

The German finance ministry has declared that there is no chance of a deal today on Greece's bailout programme, despite Athens approving its 2013 budget last night.

Ministry spokeswoman Marianne Kothe told reporters in Berlin that it wasn't realistic to expect a decision at tonight's Eurogroup meeting (of euro finance ministers), particularly as German MPs must have their say first.

Kothe said: Everyone is working under a lot of pressure to resolve questions which are still open...I think it's rather unrealistic to expect a final decision today as in Germany the Bundestag has to agree to it in advance.

There are also reports this morning that Jean-Claude Juncker, chair of the eurogroup, has also ruled out a decision this evening.

The precise whereabouts of the Troika report on Greece is another issue ... Germany's Kothe said today that she didn't think the final version was complete yet...in fact The German (Fourth Reich's ) Governor of Greece - Horst Reichenbach made no comments !!!!!

A pathetic gesture by a group of Nordic Europhiles intended to boost EU morale in dark times.

Has the committee which runs the Nobel Peace Prize been infiltrated by satirists or opponents keen on discrediting the organisation? Norwegian radio reports this morning, carried by Reuters, suggested that the European Union is to be awarded the prize for supposedly keeping the peace in Europe for the last sixty years. Was this a Nordic spoof? Apparently not.

It is only a few years since President Obama was ludicrously awarded the Nobel peace prize for winning the 2008 election and not being George Bush. Since then Mr Obama has continued the war in Afghanistan, stepped up drone attacks and got America involved in Libya's bloody revolution, suggesting that it is better to hand out baubles after someone has finished their job rather than when they are just getting started or are half way through. Incidentally, the same stricture should have applied to bankers honoured by New Labour when they were still running banks which later blew up.

Giving the EU a peace prize is at best premature, like knighting Sir Fred Goodwin in the middle of the mad boom. We have no idea how the experiment to create an anti-democratic federation will end. Hopefully the answer is very peacefully, but when Greek protesters are wearing Nazi uniforms, and Spanish youth unemployment is running at 50 per cent, a look at history suggests there is always the possibility of a bumpy landing.

Daftest of all is the notion that the EU itself has kept the peace. It was the Allies led by the Americans, the Russians and the British who defeated and disarmed the Germans in 1945. The German people then underwent the most extraordinary reckoning, transforming their country into an essentially pacifist society. The EU had very little to do with it. Throughout that period it was Nato, led by the Americans and British, which kept the peace in Western Europe. The American taxpayer picked up most of the resulting tab, and the British paid a significant part of the bill too.

Under this defence umbrella, the federalists who wanted to reconstruct the notion of Carolingian Empire which dominated 9th century Europe, created what we have come to know and love as the EU. Of course there are advantages in what they constructed – the single market and easier travel, making the South of France and Tuscany more accessible. But they also built an appallingly designed single currency, a horlicks of an agricultural policy and rapacious bureaucracy determined to stifle the nation state in the name of utopian, unachievable continent-wide homogeneity. And at every turn those driving it looked for ways to outwit the democratic will.

It is said that those in charge of the Nobel Peace Prize have made their latest award to distract attention from the eurozone crisis, which only adds a further surreal twist. The last year or so in Europe has been marked by demonstrations and extensive European rioting. There are words one can use to describe what is going on, but "peaceful" isn't one of them.(By Iain Martin)

There is no German help that can solve the basic problem in Spain. Money, or access to it, is not the problem for the Spanish sovereign. It has had quitre literally hundreds of billions of euros thrown at it since it joined the EU a quarter of a century ago and it has still failed to develop a sustainable and functional economic model.   Fully a third of people in Madrid are employed by the state, many in utterly futile positions which are duplicated at regional and local model. Spain would be better off if it offered redundancy to all such public sector workers, with a view to cutting down numbers by say a third. Those who take up the offer should in addition to their redundancy pay be assured of loan and equity funding for business start ups to generate wealth that the country badly needs. And I'm not talking about property development projects on the coast which seems to be the default Spanish notion of entrepreneurialism.  All this schlepping up and down from one European capital to another by leaders and finance ministers is utterly futile. The fundamental problem will not be solved by finding some ingenious way of getting "free money" funneled from North to South. The basic problem is that, given developments in the East, not enough wealth is being generated to sustain our current economic and social model in both South and North. Countries such as Greece and Spain are being picked off in the same way that we see the least fleet of foot in the herd being picked off by the predator on those BBC wildlife programmes.   But if the basic problem is not tackled, what is happening in those countries will surely happen in countries such as France and the UK, which because of their proud histories implicitly believe that they are somehow immune, in a few years time. Let's stop sloganeering about bankers and tax evaders - for whom incidentally I have not an ounce of sympathy - and stop putting our faith in the chimera of revolution. Let us rather face up to the simple fact that if we want to maintain our existing social model we must start to generate wealth or within a generation we ALL will be eking out our livings on the verge of grinding poverty.

Poland under the current administration is based on “a system of clientelism”....

WARSAW–Tens of thousands of people marched through the center of the Polish capital Saturday in an anti-government rally organized by the conservative opposition hoping to unseat the country’s popular prime minister who it says has turned Poland’s democracy into a facade through his firm grip on power.   Police estimated that 50,000 people participated, while the conservative Law and Justice party said 200,000 people took part in the march, held under the slogan “Wake up, Poland.” The party’s leader, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, said Poland doesn’t give equal opportunities to all its citizens and discriminates against Catholics. He put the blame on Prime Minister Donald Tusk.

“These huge crowds mean strength,” he said at the end of the march at Warsaw’s Castle Square. “This means that Poland has awakened. The cup of evil has overflowed and we Poles, we Polish patriots, say ‘no’.”    Mr. Tusk’s administration, which took power away from Mr. Kaczynski in 2007 and is now in its second term of office, has been going through several rough patches recently. The collapse of a gold fund, Amber Gold, which the authorities said was a Ponzi scheme, highlighted possible systemic problems with enforcement of financial regulation. On Mr. Tusk’s watch, bodies of victims of a Polish government airplane crash in Russia in 2010 were mixed up and buried in incorrect graves, with the administration taking the heat this month for relying on autopsies performed in Moscow and not ordering that all coffins be opened upon arrival.   The economy is slowing more than expected, while the latest statistical data showed that Poles continue to emigrate to other European Union countries in search of better life. Poland has been growing robustly since the early 1990s, at 4.3% in 2011, much above EU and regional averages. But the EU’s largest emerging economy is expected to grow 2.5% this year amid the crisis in the euro zone, the largest recipient of Polish exports.  With economic output per capita adjusted for purchasing power about $20,000 a year, Poland remains a poor relative of the more developed nations in the European Union, which it joined in 2004 after more than a decade of transition from communist central planning.

Mr. Kaczynski said Poland under the current administration is based on “a system of clientelism” and said the mostly leftist and liberal media flatter the ruling Civic Platform party by painting a rosy picture of Poland’s economic and international situation while ignoring challenges and keeping mum on the governing camp’s shortcomings.

You can't have your cake and eat it...

Given that the overall public debt of Greece is approximately Euro 360 billion, this means an effective annual interest rate of approximately 3.7% for Greek public debt . A better interest rate than many other countries would get.  None of the above denies that Greece's economy is in a terrible mess and that many of its poorer citizens suffer.  Posting agitprop on Guardian bulletin boards won't change that, dear Kouros, neither will the stopping of paying taxes in Greece change that, which you also advocate for frequently in your comments. Paying no taxes means no money for schools to educate children, no money for medicines to be given to sick people, no money for pensions to be given to old people in Greece.

Well, otherwise .... For too long in Europe (and elsewhere) governments have run deficits, and have added to their overall debt. The only way to run those deficits and have that level of debt is through the bond market. All of us have enjoyed high standards on living, and some of that is paid for on tick, where are children will end up picking up the tab.   I don't see how anyone can blame the bond traders for charging higher interest rates if through their own risk assessment it looks like that debt will either never be paid back, or will be swollowed up through inflation.  Either a government runs near on balanced budgets which means the electorate not voting for high public spending 'free monkey in every office' political parties, so the bond markets have very little to do with economic decisions, or the electorate go for those parties and accept high debts and deficits which leaves them beholding to the bond markets.  You can't have your cake and eat it.

back on the continent ....

Why is it that when people decide to drill into their gold they find tungsten in the middle, would be nice to have people find only gold, but most that have drilled have only found tungsten, bars from the switzerland, london and NY seems to be faked on a huge scale, have any of these countries got any gold, i think it has all been shipped of the planet, lol, it is the only answer, bet we find most of the gold has vanished and we have 1000's of tons of tungsten, lol, could the tales of enki be true, lol, we must have a world wide gold audit....Back to the Continent, where German MPs reportedly want the ECB to limit its bank supervision to the eurozone's major lenders. Proposals seen by Reuters also showed that MPs from Chancellor Angela Merkel's party and their Free Democrat (FDP) allies reject proposals for cross-border bank deposit insurance, which they want to remain the responsibility of individual states.

Greece has pledged to raise €50bn from state assets by 2020 as part of bail-out conditions imposed by international lenders.

Germany has also got a debt auction away this morning, where it has paid next to nothing to sell two-year bonds. ...The country sold €4.084bn of two-year debt at average yields of 0.06pc, slightly up from the zero (yes, ZERO) percent it paid in August.  Demand was higher, with 2.1 bidders for every bond on offer, compared with 1.5 in August.

Portugal has got a debt auction away this morning, where it has sold short term bonds at markedly lower rates. The country sold €1.3bn of 18-month Treasury bills at average yields of 2.967pc, compared with 4.537pc at a previous auction in April. It also sold €700m of six month debt at average yields of 1.7pc (vs 2.292pc